Buffer tank

I generally consider it to be bad form when folks post that some people shouldn't participate in a discussion. It doesn't foster a free flow exchange of information or ideas. Instead, folks should support what they post with supporting information so others can review said posts and info and draw their own conclusions. This site and all forums like this where people go to gather information function best when ideas supported by data are freely exchanged and discussed.

Amtrol inc

Bladder tanks are required in a closed-loop heating or chilled water HVAC system to absorb the expanding fluid and limit the pressure within a heating or cooling system. A properly sized expansion or compression tank will accommodate the expansion of the system fluid during the heating or cooling cycle without allowing the system to exceed the critical pressure limits of the system.

Wessels is America's leading supplier of custom & specialty tanks in Indianapolis, Carmel, Bloomington, Columbus, Evansville, Terre Haute, Lafayette, Ft. Wayne, South Bend, Indiana as well as Chicago, Quad Cities, Illinois, Des Moines, Iowa, Columbus, Cincinnati, Ohio, Detroit, Michigan, Louisville, Lexington, Kentucky, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Minnesota, Madison, Wisconsin, St. Louis, Missouri and other areas throughout the Midwest and the United States.

Sure, you love your steam system but realize it can never be all that efficient. And, saving 40% on a system that is a train wreck is not a comparison to a mod-con.Henry is correct.

Thermal expansion tanks are designed for pressure control in potable water systems. The building’s water heater or water heating system typically creates thermally expanded water. A properly sized thermal expansion tank will accommodate this additional volume of water through expansion during the heating cycle and control the system pressure increases, keeping pressures from reaching critical limits. The tank uses compressed air to maintain system pressures by accepting and expelling the changing volume of water as it heats and cools. These tanks are designed using a flexing Butyl barrier that separates the stored water from the captured pressure control air cushion. This barrier, a replaceable bladder or fixed diaphragm, allows the water to be contained within the bladder preventing corrosion and potential water logging. The thermal expansion tanks are engineered to meet ASME standards, and are also available in non-code designs. Wessels thermal expansion tanks are offered in industry’s broadest range from 2 to 4,000 gallons and up to 250 PSI.

The assumption.............. is that they don't have any data and have nothing to support.What possible value can they add to the thread?

Pressurized thermal expansion tanks differ from plain steel expansion tanks in that a flexible bladder or diaphragm separates the air cushion from the system fluid. The air side pre-charge of the tank must be field adjusted to equal the system supply pressure. As the system water expands, the bladder expands open, pushing against the air cushion to accept the expanded water.

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...a mod-con conversion might be considerably more costly than a steam system upgrade, but I'm not even convinced of that.

Hot water tank

The diaphragm tank has been developed to allow the systems air cushion to be separated from the systems water. No waterlogging of the tank can occur as the air is held between the tank wall and the outside of a bladder placed inside the tank, while the system water is contained inside the bladder. This changes the system to an air elimination system, as any air extracted from the system water is passed out of the system into the atmosphere.

If it is a one pipe system forget about it. If it is a two pipe system, we have done a lot of them with energy savings of up to 40%. Early cast iron radiators were over sized. You can use a mod/con boiler. The 160F temperature is only for less than 100 hours of operation in the North. Where are you located? PM for factual information.

You have no argument on efficiency when a steam system is compared to a mod-con. You ought to stay on what you do know..............a mod-con conversion might be considerably more costly than a steam system upgrade, but I'm not even convinced of that. A full NBP change is probably more costly than the mod-con.

All this bantering is pointless. However steamers size their boilers to the EDR. Water based systems are sized to the heat loss. So any excess in EDR becomes an advantage. Especially when a mod/con is used.So one could take an existing steam system that is at its peak operating efficiency, compare the EDR, and boiler size of the system to what if it were water based with a right size to heat loss boiler, and if the radiation were over sized for the actual heat loss of the structure.Oh, and I do seem to have viewed a lot of steamers who would love to have a modulating steamer with some using two stage gas valve trains.....