The biggest downfall of any system like this is where people that install pipe-work without proper elbows and expect the pipe itself

Pros and cons ofhot water recirculatingpump

When you understand how recirculating systems work, it’s pretty obvious what can go wrong from an energy standpoint. First, the pump can use a lot of energy if it’s inefficient and it runs all the time. Second, all this pipe filled with hot water can transfer a lot of heat to the house, especially if it’s not insulated. In the winter, you’re heating your house with your hot water – which usually isn’t the most efficient way to heat your house. In the summer, you’re still heating your house and your air conditioning has to work harder to remove this heat. Insulating the pipes helps, but pipe insulation isn’t very thick, so you still get this effect.

Firstly, as @MitchellMc, mentioned some water services require this, as it needs to be pressure tested before the wall linings are re-instated,

Any joints you have anyway will need to be hot soldered, this is NOT a DIY thing if you're not confident doing this and don't want to set fire to

The only place I'd be slightly concerned about using them is in a bathroom behind a waterproof layer that you can't access from the other side of the wall. You don't want to end up in a situation where to access a leaking pex fitting the tiles and waterproofing has to come off.

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before it is fitted into any sort of connector, this is the main reason that leaks happen when people try to use the scissors or the hacksaw

Secondly, you have existing copper pipework, a qualified plumber will be able to re-route these pipes and lengthen/shorten them as required

I've consulted with some of my plumbing colleagues on this issue and they believe that using push-type fittings for temporary or emergency situations is ok. Using it for exposed connections is also acceptable, but for long-term in-wall fitting, they still recommend using traditional brazed copper fittings.

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Welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community. It's sensational to have you join us and thank you for sharing your question about plumbing fittings.

I have done a bit of research and would love peoples thoughts on push on fittings like smartex or shark bite, in plumbing, I need to make a change in my laundry and want to run new pipes and was going for the push connectors but people think they are more just a temporary not permanent connector?

Hopefully some our members will be able to provide some tips and tricks. Let me mention @MikeTNZ to see if he has any thoughts.

As luck would have it, we've just discussed these fittings. Check out Thoughts on push on fittings for plumbing by @carlyk.

Hot water Recirculatingvalve

Another area of confusion out there locally is the “future loop”. Don’t allow your plumber to install a “future loop” – there’s no such thing. Either your plumbing is installed in a loop and you should take the above steps to do it right, or it isn’t. The idea behind the “future loop” is that they’re going to install the piping in a loop and only add a pump if you complain about how long it takes to get hot water. There are several problems with this:

Also bear in mind that these types of connectors are single fit only, especially Shark-bite and Hepworth fittings, you have one chance

These products require installation by a qualified plumber, so I'm unable to provide any specific installation instructions. However, for the very old copper lines, your plumber will likely select an undamaged section and place a clean cut through it. They'd then clean the surface up with some fine sandpaper to remove any deposits before installing the Pex to copper fitting. As long as the plumber can find an uncrimped section of copper pipe, installation shouldn't be an issue for them.

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Hey @MikeTNZ  thank you for the info, I hope the pic comes through, so what I have 4 copper pipes coming down, I want to fix them up in the roof and only have 2 (1 hot 1 cold) for a laundry sink and washing machine (under counter ) fittings. So what I was think is the blue line put in an extra stud and run the pex down as 1 piece to the connectors so I have no joints behind the Wall and to always make sure the cut is square

So, recirculating loops come with a potentially big energy penalty. The first question you should ask is, “do I really need one”? If the house is smaller and the water heater can be centrally located, you don’t. Sometimes in a bigger house, you can have two water heaters, both of which are relatively close to their fixtures. You can get hot water to fixtures more quickly using a “manifold” plumbing system. Manifold systems have a “home run” of pipe to each hot water fixture. These home runs can be smaller and more direct, so it doesn’t take as long to flush the cool water out of the pipe. I also encourage clients to think about whether they need fast hot water at *every* fixture. You may be happy with a water heater that’s located close to your master bathroom, but be willing to wait at an infrequently used guest bathroom or a laundry room.

What’s a hot water recirculating loop and how is it different from a standard system? A typical hot water system has piping that comes from the water heater in a “tree” configuration, with a main trunk and smaller branches that go to each fixture. When you turn on the hot water tap, you have to wait for the cool water to flush out of the piping before you get hot water. A recirculating system is piped differently using a loop that travels throughout the house and gets close to all of the fixtures that use hot water. There are very short branch pipes that connect this loop to each fixture. A pump is used to circulate hot water through the loop, so that hot water arrives at the fixture very quickly.

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I understand that it’s a pretty compelling argument when you hear that you might hate your system later, so you’d better install a loop just in case. However, that’s not entirely true. There ARE systems that will function much like a recirculating loop that can be installed later in an existing home (I’ve written about them here). So if you’ve looked at the distance to your fixtures and think you’ll likely be OK with the wait, you won’t be out of options if you change your mind. So absolutely, I want you to practice water conservation. I’m also totally cool with the idea that you might also get fast hot water. Just don’t do it at the expense of energy conservation. You can have both.

It would be extremely helpful if you could please post some pictures of what is installed now and possibly some arrows and the like (using Paint or some other application) to show us how you want it to look after it is finished?

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The decision to do recirculation is very individual. This will be surprising to some of my clients, but I do sometimes recommend recirculating systems. If I look at all of above strategies and feel that the plumbing fixtures in a home are just too far apart and can’t reasonably be served by any of these strategies, it’s worth considering recirculation. But you have to commit to doing it right, which isn’t going to be free.

Let me tag @carlyk to make sure they see your recommendations. Thank you very much for adding that extra information about hot soldering. I totally agree hot soldering is not a skill you can master overnight, it takes time and a lot of practice.

Why Pay Thrice? By Ken Huck on 03/16/2006 Owners of inefficient homes must pay for building, higher utility bills, and the cost of a degraded environment.…

yeah okay, so long as there installed correctly at the correct depth into the fitting its a reliable option?? and yes if really need to, i can access the pex fittings from the outside as its only a cladding house so be easier to access that way then ripping bathroom apart. im just amazed how such a simple push fitting just doesnt leak what so ever! is there really any particulars in the way of fitting it with there copper push on fitting onto very old copper lines?? is there any tips or tricks you would recommend for these fittings? cheers Steve

Welcome to the Bunnings Workshop community @TheycallmeSteve. It's great to have you join us, and many thanks for your question about push fittings.

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Gday guys,doing a bathroom reno on a budget, what are peoples thoughts on the whole pex push fittings/ sharkbite fittings etc. its a 1928 house with the last reno done to the house in the 60's. will be completely rearranging where showers, bath and vanity are placed. are the pex push fittings reliable behind walls for permanent use? old man has done it for water in the shed few years ago and it worked great. just not sure how it would go for a full bathroom reno. adapting to existing feed cold and hot water feed into the bathroom cheers Steve

Hot water recirculatingpump

Pex/Sharkbite fittings are used daily in the construction industry for permanent installations. As long as they are installed by a professional and leak tested before the wall is closed up, then they are a reliable option.

My advice first off, if you want to do this properly, buy the proper tube cutter, you need to make Square cuts to the end of the piping

I'm more than willing to help you through this, plumbing this sort of thing can be difficult if you've never attempted it before.

These fittings have been around for many years and in the beginning I too was scepticle. However, due to the way they are designed once installed correctly, they only bite on harder if you try to pull them apart.

If someone is selling you on the water-saving benefits of a recirculation system, and they’re NOT also talking to you about low-flow showerheads and toilets, it’s worth questioning whether they’re really motivated by water conservation. The energy penalty isn’t just speculation on my part. Before the HERS rating system started penalizing homes for poorly done recirculation systems, we did several audits a year from people who had really high bills because of these systems.

Hot water recirculating loops are having a moment. They’re popular with plumbers because they reduce callbacks homeowners who don’t want to run their taps and wait for hot water. They’re also quite inexpensive to install – if you install them in a way that will work really inefficiently. Recirculating loops ARE a water-saving feature. But if you’re not careful, they can waste a LOT of energy. And homeowners will be paying for these loops every month on their utility bills as long as they own the home.

Both SmarteX and Sharkbite are very good push connector fittings. Both products are approved for behind-the-wall fitting as long as they are installed correctly and in accordance with the local code. I suggest checking with your local council on the rules and regulations about what type of plumbing fitting is approved in your area before you start your project.